Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive rights!

Because some people forget what we're fighting for, I guess I have to copy/paste the damn "Learn about NARAL" from their website (beneath the fold).  Link to their easily found website:

GO TO THE WEBSITE AND DONATE:
http://www.naral.org/

Learn About NARAL Pro-Choice America

For more than 30 years, NARAL Pro-Choice America has been the nation's leading advocate for privacy and a woman's right to choose. With more than one million members and supporters, NARAL Pro-Choice America is fighting to protect the pro-choice values of freedom and privacy. With the far right in control of the White House and many state legislatures, our work has never been more important.

Electing pro-choice candidates:  NARAL Pro-Choice America elects pro-choice candidates through PAC support, direct voter contact, and political expertise.  During the campaign season, we educate and mobilize voters through paid advertising, earned media, direct mail, online messaging, and other get-out-the-vote efforts.

Organizing:  NARAL Pro-Choice America uses traditional and innovative online organizing methods to mobilize pro-choice Americans in all 50 states.  Our grassroots power helps to educate and mobilize pro-choice activists, stop anti-choice legislation, and defend our rights against well-funded, emboldened anti-choice forces.  Through strategic organizing, we are building the next generation of pro-choice leaders who reflect the strength of our country's diversity and share a commitment to protecting women's reproductive freedom.

Lobbying Congress:  NARAL Pro-Choice America fights the relentless onslaught of anti-choice policies and legislation introduced in Congress and works with pro-choice legislators in support of bills to protect a woman's right to choose and expand women's access to reproductive-health care.  Fortune Magazine has described NARAL Pro-Choice America as "one of the top 10 advocacy groups in America."

Research and analysis:  NARAL Pro-Choice America is the only organization that provides up-to-the-minute information about state bills, the enactment of new laws, and decisions handed down by state and federal courts related to reproductive rights.  Our staff monitors state and federal activity on a daily basis.

Affiliate network in the states:  NARAL Pro-Choice America pursues state-based organizing, advocacy and constituency building in coordination with its state affiliate network.  State affiliates work to advance pro-choice legislative strategies and defeat anti-choice measures in their state legislatures, elect pro-choice candidates, and educate and engage the public on choice issues.

Thanks for the warm wishes/thank yous, etc, but it literally took 20 seconds, 5 clicks, and a bit of tappity to do this. Obviously NARAL is an important organization for maintaining civil liberties. The fact that we even have to post diaries like "wait everyone, I have an idea: don't abandon this bastion of reproductive rights" is silly.

Display:


Thank you minnesotaryan (2.00 / 9)

for being a voice of reason. Rec'd. And I go get my wallet from my vehicle.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:47:08 AM EST

This is absolutely disingenuous (1.85 / 7)

and you all know it. Alegre's diary was not 'anti' reproductive rights. It criticized NARAL's PAC for choosing Obama over Clinton. Clinton has been with NARAL basically since they started- she is a NARAL warrior and NARAL chose Obama for political gain. Send them money, that IS a great idea, but don't pretend that any Hillary supporter, particularly Alegre, is somehow now against a woman's right to choose. Don't intimate it either.
by linc on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:42:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is absolutely disingenuous (2.00 / 5)

NARAL "chose" Obama because he's the presumptive nominee. An attack on NARAL is an attack on reproductive rights as it weakens the group.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:47:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That (2.00 / 1)

is not what this diary is about.
by linc on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:49:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That (2.00 / 3)

This diary is about a petulant attack on NARAL and shows why it's was childish.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:58:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW supports Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Great! Fighting for women's issues is very important!


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:14:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW supports Clinton (none / 0)

I stopped supporting NARAL when they supported Lieberman:

http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/11/naral- endorses-lieberman/

I still support NOW.

It is crazy to give money to NARAL after they supported the man who opposed emergency contraceptives (meaning Lieberman obviously).

If you have been supporting NARAL you have been supporting some lovely whine and cheese parties, not reproductive rights. Don't be confused ;->


by redwagon on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:31:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and NARAL (2.00 / 1)

is not a perfect organization. Without criticism, organizations rarely improve. NARAL is not the end all and be all of reproductive rights in this country.
by linc on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:51:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: and NARAL (2.00 / 4)

If the criticism is that they endorsed Obama then that criticism is worth ridiculing. As is the critic.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:59:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Silencing his critics as usual (2.00 / 2)

You make no sense.


by Jordache on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:14:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Silencing his critics as usual (none / 0)

What? What are you  talking about?? Who is criticizing Obama and for what??


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:15:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

NAREL is a nonexistent group as far as I know... (none / 0)

It would really help your argument if you spelled NARAL correctly.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:31:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

NARAL (none / 0)

made a bad choice- Nancy should have stayed out of it. It WAS a poor decision. Why on earth would Obama need a NARAL endorsement now?

Nancy is a good leader, but a horrible political operative- always has been. I was there when she ran against Denny. He was a horrible, horrible candidate and even though it was close, she still lost- any other dem would have won. She doesn't know politics and now she has just dropped NARAL into a fight they didn't need to have.
by linc on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:11:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NARAL (none / 0)

Nancy is a dope ... why are you worried .. I guess you forget what happened in 2006 .. the state chapters .. and the national one can't keep on the same page .. they've had those problems for a long time .. besides .. Obama is the presumptive nominee ... so they decided the time is now to get on board .. big deal


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:01:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NARAL (none / 0)

It shouldn't be a fight. That it is shows how irrational some people are being.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:57:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Irrrational? (none / 0)

well, reason is COMPLETELY subjective if you ask this post-structuralist. If we want to question reason, we question all of it, including Nancy's.
by linc on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:00:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re:Clinton has as strong a record... (none / 0)

...on reproductive rights, if not stronger.  

And do you actually know anything about NARAL besides the highly self-congratulatory words copied and pasted from their website on the op?  They are pretty ineffective.  The endorsed Senator "Short Drive" Lieberman over Ned Lamont.  They used Alito's nomination to scare members into ponying up, them sat on the money and did nothing to fight his confirmation.  Find a better organization to champion,they don't deserve it, even if they did endorse your candidate.  


by half nelson on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:40:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton and Obama both have strong pro-choice (none / 0)

records. EITHER candidate should be the candidate of choice for pro-choice voters against McCain if women's reproductive rights are important to you.

For those who will bring up Obama's "present" vote in the Illinois Senate, read the Illinois State Constitution. A present vote in Illinois is in effect a no vote. A bill doesn't pass by a majority of those voting but by a majority of the full state Senate.

This doesn't mean he is beyond criticism and I believe it is okay to call him on this if you want to but don't exaggerate it.


by batgirl71 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:59:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re:Clinton has as strong a record... (none / 0)

If they're so unimportant an ineffective then there"s no reason to be upset right?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re:It's not for me to say... (none / 0)

...how people should feel about this endorsement, but I can certainly understand withholding money from NARAL, for this and other reasons, including the ones I mentioned.  Why waste your money?


by half nelson on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:49:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re:It's not for me to say... (none / 0)

Well people are who are complaining seem to think it's a big deal so they must not think that the organization is worthless. Therefore, their witholding of money is damaging the cause. At least in their minds. Children.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:51:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: and NARAL (2.00 / 4)

You're being disingenuous.  Diaries like Alegre's, and there are others on Taylor Marsh and all the usual places are rallying cries for people to stop supporting NARAL.  If you don't believe me, go into Alegre's diary and count the number of people who say they're not going to support NARAL anymore.

This diary is a needed antidote to that.


by Jordache on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:59:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NAREL had no business (2.00 / 1)

He certainly can win the general, but by that rationale they had no business endorsing a candidate who cannot even win the primary.

NARAL is a pro-choice organization.  Obama has a 100% pro-choice record.  This is just sour grapes.


by Jordache on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:16:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NAREL had no business (2.00 / 1)

Only MyDD Clinton supporters know that. But then again you knew Clinton would win.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:16:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NAREL had no business (none / 0)

So womens rights groups can only support women?  Are you trying to tell me that no men support womens rights?


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:03:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is absolutely disingenuous (none / 0)

Faulty logic at best, especially when you consider that Naral tried to keep the senate in GOP hands in 06 by supporting Lincoln Chafee over Sheldon Whitehouse. They didn't have our backs then, why should we have theirs now?


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:26:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is absolutely disingenuous (none / 0)

And that's an even more disengenuous argument.  NARAL did not "try to keep the Senate in GOP hands" - what they did is what a lot of pro-choice and other single-issue organizations do.  They supported a pro-choice Republican in an effort to a)be a bi-partisan organization, and b)demonstrate to other Republicans that it's possible to get on their good side if they vote the right way.

Lincoln Chafee was an excellent Senator by the way.  Voted against the war.  Voted with the Democrats on nearly every issue.  He lost his seat because the voters wanted to give control of the Senate to the Democrats, and he knew it.  If he were to switch his party affiliation and run again, he'd win.


by Jordache on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:15:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is absolutely disingenuous (none / 0)

Oh, just one more thing on Lincoln Chafee - right after he lost his seat he wrote an op-ed piece in the times which was basically an open letter to Rhode Island.  It said "Hey guys, I know why you voted me out, and I don't blame you.  The Republican party these days is dangerous."

I love liberal Republicans.  They're so civilized.  They're dying out, and totally extinct outside of New England.


by Jordache on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:19:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is absolutely disingenuous (none / 0)

They had the backs of the pro-choice movement and were trying to be bi-partisan. Even if I disagree with that move, and I do, that's not relevant to this. "Our backs" is the pro-choice movement not Hillary Clinton.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:08:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is absolutely disingenuous (2.00 / 5)

I see neither pretense nor false intimation in this diary. The diarist was making a very real point that advocating a withholding of funds from NARAL because they favored one 100% pro-choice candidate over the other - is small-minded, short-sighted, hypocritical, and only weakens the pro-choice lobby.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:53:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is absolutely disingenuous (2.00 / 3)

It wasn't a criticism, it was an outright denouncement, a pledge to discontinue support altogether, and an earnest exhortation for other clinton supporters to do the same.  Putting loyalty to one's candidate over core progressive values is beyond the pale for a democrat and is in my view, simply unacceptable behavior.


by semiquaver on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:04:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is absolutely disingenuous (none / 0)

Oh, and linc, just to underscore my point, the one person who has recced your comment is Caldonia - a person who has vowed never to support NARAL again.

This is about defending NARAL from that.


by Jordache on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:18:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I rec'd this in my mind... (2.00 / 10)

...and shot over $50.


by upstate girl on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:48:46 AM EST

I'll rec it for you (2.00 / 7)

I don't have anything to send them though except my words (no money until June).


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:13:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Donated (2.00 / 10)

$10..thanks to alegre's diary


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:49:32 AM EST

For additional support, (2.00 / 10)

you should embed some videos of McCain, (1) talking about being in favor of overturning Roe v. Wade, or (2) laughing along with the crowd when he was asked "How do we beat the bitch [Clinton]?".

Remind everyone that McCain and the GOP (and NOT NARAL or Obama) are the real enemies of reproductive rights.


by Slim Tyranny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:50:05 AM EST

Re: For additional support, (2.00 / 1)

God, does this require any sort of "remember the republican candidate's stance on this"?  That's unfortunate.

I guess I can look for something, but as you can probably guess from the ridiculous "<" at the beginning of the quotation that was suppose to start the block quote and the ">" that was suppose to end it, I have absolutely no idea how to embed video.  Haha :)


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:56:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yea, I can't help with embed'ing (2.00 / 1)

I'm more of an "ideas" guy, actually pulling something off isn't my style  ;)


by Slim Tyranny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:57:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

To embed (2.00 / 2)

you just need to paste in the embed code from youtube.

Also to do blockquotes:

<.blockquote> John McCain is bad <./blockquote>

only take out the periods in the tags


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:15:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To embed (none / 0)

Hey cool!  Look at that.  Overly proud of myself for doing such a simple computery task...thanks :)


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:30:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No problem (none / 0)

just passing on the info that someone passed on to me...


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:38:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I invented HTML (none / 0)


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:51:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I invented HTML (none / 0)

Al Gore blogs on MYDD?


John McCain isn't evil. He's just wrong about a lot of things. Vote Obama!
by proseandpromise on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:09:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No, no, no (none / 0)

Al invented the Internets.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:14:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, no, no (none / 0)

Lizard is a freeper?
http://www.politechbot.com/p-01394.html
by redwagon on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:34:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (2.00 / 7)

Great diary.  I've donated tonight and will donate in the coming days simply to offset this petulant charade.


by Pat Flatley on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:50:15 AM EST

I normally don't push single-issue (2.00 / 4)

politics based on the Crashing the Gate theory of coalitional politics.  That said, I may make a donation out of either my political or my charity account (yes I actually budget for both) to offset a  pile of petulance that they have been forced to endure.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:54:06 AM EST

I support NARAL and would continue to do so if (2.00 / 12)

they endorsed Hillary.  I don't see any problem with them endorsing a candidate that has a 100% rating with them.

They endorsed him because in Their opinion he's the best choice and the best bet to beat McCain.

Obviously it owuld be extremely insulting to suggest that they endorsed him because he's not a woman, coming from NARAL that would make Absolutely no friggin sense.

Thanks for being a voice of reason on this site.


McCain does Not support the troops
by hope monger on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:55:26 AM EST

Re: I support NARAL and would continue to do so if (2.00 / 2)

You are a class act... :)


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:04:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

sorry, I think I didn't put that the best way, did (none / 0)

you have a question?


McCain does Not support the troops
by hope monger on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:40:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah okay...I got it. (2.00 / 8)

If they endorse Obama they're bad.  If they endorse Clinton they're good.

that's pretty much the basis of these arguments anymore.

It is getting really...unsettling to watch.


by DawnG on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:12:29 AM EST

Re: Yeah okay...I got it. (none / 0)

I would be upset at NARAL if they didn't endorse the candidate that everyone in the world except for a handful here can see is going to get the nomination.  They are not in the business of standing strong in solidarity a candidate simply because she is a woman (they'd be chauvinists if they did).  They are in the business of protecting choice.  Endorsing the candidate that will get the nomination is the most pragmatic way to put them in a position to do so.  

Both of these candidates are very solidly pro-choice.  True believers in equality don't give or take away points based on gender.  To do so would be sexist.  Like so many others who know there way around politics, NARAL held out until they were pretty sure who would get the nod and then endorsed that person.  Wise move for an organization that wants to be effective and isn't confused about what their cause is.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:00:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for the link (2.00 / 4)

Just made my first donation and sent an email affirming my appreciation for their work. I hope they don't sweat the hate mail too much. In any case, I should have donated long ago, but it's never too late, I guess.


by DPW on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:18:08 AM EST

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (2.00 / 7)

Nice diary. NARAL has done great work. They're not perfect but then, nothing is in life. The reaction from women to them supporting Obama was hideous. I was shocked at the threats and call-outs.

I donated $200 today and will donate more. This nonsense of voting McCain or not voting is so destructive.

Revenge is an ugly thing to put on display. You know, I thought what would these women say if by some horrific chance McCain got elected and Roe v. Wade (amongst other rights) disappeared...who would they blame. Certainly not their petulant selves.

We all need to come together and put a Dem in the WH (Obama). Thanks for the diary of common sense.


by Bastet on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:25:36 AM EST

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (2.00 / 15)

You know I was actually told by an older (50+) woman that if I (21 years old) voted for Obama I and everyone else my age would DESERVE to lose our reproductive rights and that at her age, no longer needing them, she simply didn't care what we "asked for" by not voting for Hillary?

This was said to me.

My jaw just dropped.

I have the most to lose. The other women my age have the most to lose. I respect and am eternally grateful to those who have fought their ENTIRE LIVES to pave the way for us, but it turns out that apparently comes with a price. It turns out there's a sect of women who believe that we are BEHOLDEN to them, and if we don't forgo our own choices to fall into lockstep, we deserve what we get and that's that. This NARAL endorsement and the subsequent explosion heard 'round the blogosphere only proves that for some women, CHOICE means "do as I say and vote with your vagina, you silly, hysterical child."


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:38:56 AM EST

I agree (2.00 / 9)

It is like some twisted reverse discrimination and I find it utterly repulsive.

As a manager who is tasked with hiring and promoting people, I understand how easy it is to fall into the trap of "like me".  We tend to hire and promote people, not based on prejudice, but based on "like me."  What that means is that when a candidate or employee presents his or her self as being like a younger version of oneself, it is really easy to give them preferential treatment.  This is how the "boyz clubs" start at work and this is how it is easy to fall into a similar "girlz club".

I think I a seeing a version of that same phenomenon right here.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:47:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (2.00 / 12)

Second wave feminists feel threatened by the fact that their daughters do not feel obligated to tow a narrative pushed by the attitude that someone else knows what's right for them, and for women at large (which isn't all that different from the attitude that men know what's best for women).

They grew up in a much different era. Their solidarity and strength pushed the first legal progress towards equal rights in the workplace and reproductive freedom. But the war mindset of front line soldiers doesn't necessarily translate into the best way to handle a situation once the first stages of detente have been achieved.

We are starting to move past the us vs. them mindset in this country in many ways - white vs. black, men vs. women - and that is not a scenario that hard-line idealists fighting for one side or the other know how to traverse.


by upstate girl on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:46:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (none / 0)

Brilliant comment


by routerdude on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:09:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (none / 0)

Incisive points, and very well made. Both of you.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:05:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (none / 0)

This comment is just saturated with "smart".  Well said.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:49:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (none / 0)

That strikes me as the same sort of "uterus blackmail" typically deployed against Clinton supporters who suggest they may not vote for Obama in November.  I trust you find it equally deplorable in either case.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:44:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (none / 0)

Recall that this all began when the Clinton campaign dropped those misleading flyers about Obama's pro-choice record the night before the New Hampshire primary, when there was no time to rebut them.


by Jordache on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:57:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Women's Rights Groups do not like Obama (1.66 / 3)

And we all know just how relevant the wearing of flag pins are to the issue of women's reproductive rights.

No doubt all the flag pins you've ever worn are well preserved. Your GOP loyalties are oozing out of your pores - return to whatever unfortunate rock sourced you, troll.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:24:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you know (none / 0)

just because some people don't like Obama doesn't mean they are republicans.  And that tactic of accusing people of that is not only old, but on its face ridiculous.

Obama is not the "chosen one" for a lot of us.  


by 4justice on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:29:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you know (none / 0)

Not liking Obama isn't the issue, and you know it. Ad hominem obsessing about the fate of flag pins should be cause for being regarded as suspicious. Or seriously disturbed.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:37:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you know (none / 0)

And I don't think your misrepresentation of my point justifies your troll rating it, either.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:40:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you know (none / 0)

It doesn't.  Uprated accordingly.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:51:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No need for that... (none / 0)

if you've ever had to hold a torture victim in your arms...


yo mir kennen
by RisingTide on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:32:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (2.00 / 1)

This seems a weak analogy at best, with no evident "uterus" connection. I see Clinton supporters hesitant to support Obama being given a slew of reasons why they should reconsider. I see numerous points of differentiation being made between the presumtive fall candidates. I do not hear any semblance of "do this because I say so".

But were I to encounter such reasoning, yes, it would be equally deplorable.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:17:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (2.00 / 1)

Evidently the right to choose means the right to choose Hillary Clinton.

That's par for the course for those who defend using results from a primary that didn't have Obama's name on the ballot.

All for Belarus style elections!
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/14/1516 3/2605


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:51:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive (2.00 / 1)

NARAL endorsed the only viable pro-choice candidate for president left.  I don't blame them.


by Skaje on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:51:00 AM EST

Re: ding ding (none / 0)

ooh, am I finally going to get paid?  I hope it's actually money this time and not just another bucket of Hope.


by Skaje on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:26:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Anecdote (2.00 / 1)

My wife and I are both in our early/mid 30's. My wife has worked in progressive nonprofits for years and is an ardent feminist. We have both supported Obama pretty much since the convention speech.

She thinks it would be great to have a woman for president, make no mistake. But she is comfortable enough with the idea that a woman will be president some day that she feels no great pressure to select this woman as president. Obama is more in tune with her ideals and is, of the two, the person she would prefer to have as president. My impression is that some older feminists haven't really come to grips with the fact that they won this particular battle. Is there still a long way to go? Absolutely. But I think we have come a lot farther than the people on the original front lines realize sometimes.


"Mom, baseball, apple pie, and a unified Democratic juggernaut."
by Purplepeople on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:33:49 AM EST

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (2.00 / 2)

I will also be donating NARAL.

This reminds me of those second wave feminist days when the purity police were telling people what you had to do and be to be truly feminist. It wasn't every feminist, to be sure, but there were enough that it became quite the joke in some the settings but quite painful in others where there were purges within organization.  

I'm also not pleased to see one progressive group (Emily's List) and progressive individuals coming out to criticize another progressive group's endorsement.

Normally each person or organization makes its own endorsement and that speaks for itself.

No union criticized another union for its endorsement.  

And those who bring up the present vote are either unaware that this done as part of a legislative strategy crafted with Planned Parenthood or they are deliberately repeating a misleading line that is campaign spin.

"We worked on the 'present' vote strategy with Obama," said Pam Sutherland, chief lobbyist for the Illinois branch of Planned Parenthood, an abortion rights group. "He was willing to vote 'no', and was always going to be a 'no' vote for us."

Sutherland said Planned Parenthood calculated that a 'present' vote by Obama would encourage other senators to cast a similar vote, rather than voting for the legislation. "They were worried about direct mail pieces against them. The more senators voted present, the harder it was to mount an issues campaign against the senator."
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec ker/2008/02/obamas_voting_record_on_abor ti.html


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:35:04 AM EST

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (none / 0)

Well said, PM.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:53:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to (1.00 / 1)

Tell NARAL to stop supporting Joe Lieberman.


by Caldonia on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:30:26 AM EST

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (2.00 / 3)

Oh, I see, now NARAL is the greatest organization ever because they endorsed Sen. Obama.

I stopped supporting NARAL when they endorsed Lincoln Chafee, a Republican who votes for anti-choice judges, against Sheldon Whitehouse, a Dem with impeccable pro-choice credentials.  Either they have some other agenda or they're just politically clueless, I decided.  Other pro-choice organizations have gotten my money since then.

Their decision to endorse Joe Lieberman, after what he said about rape victims, just confirmed I had made the right decision.

I imagine this is part of NARAL's calculus here - win back some of their lost credibility with the progressive left by endorsing Obama.  Even if I were the most fervent Obama supporter on earth, though, it still wouldn't change my feelings about the organization.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:41:12 AM EST

Lincoln Chafee is pro-choice (2.00 / 2)

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Lincol n_Chafee_Abortion.htm

Get with the program.  Not everything is about one vote.

I can't believe you're trying to tear apart one of the few pro-choice Republicans on this issue.  That race had two pro-choice candidates; it must've been tough to decide, but Chafee had a longer record and quite frankly being able to endorse a Republican was an important ethical coup for a pro-choice group.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:57:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lincoln Chafee is pro-choice (2.00 / 1)

Look, NARAL said absolutely nothing when Chafee voted to break the Democratic filibuster of Alito.  They didn't even score the vote, because it would have made their precious endorsement look worse.  There is absolutely no doubt that Sheldon Whitehouse is a greater asset in that seat to the pro-choice cause than Chafee would have been.  It makes no difference that he was the most moderate Republican, Whitehouse is still better.

Mindlessly endorsing Chafee on the grounds that he's "pro-choice" without thinking through what Chafee really does to impact the pro-choice cause.  Alito's nomination didn't come down to a single vote, but it could have.  How awesome if we lost Roe v. Wade because the "pro-choice Republican" decided not to filibuster, huh?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:06:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

There's a greater purpose (none / 0)

Quite frankly, the Alito thing really doesn't have a lot of weight with me, since if the filibuster continued, Bush would just bring up another anti-choice monster, and we'd be without a full Supreme Court for months.  Bush held the cards in that one.  It's horrible, but it's the case.

If we encourage Republicans to be pro-choice, we can de-partisan the issue and steal it from Republican hands as a wedge issue to scare evangelicals with.

I'm a bit concerned with the rising trend of pro-life Democrats; I can definitely see the strategy of encouraging Republicans to break ranks.

I'm not saying that I'd have done the same thing, but you can't deny that they had a viable strategy.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:14:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Rising Trend? (none / 0)

who but Casey is pro life? (not that I agree with the man)

We need to break the Republican party, before we can save it. And that means not voting for John Mccain.


yo mir kennen
by RisingTide on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:34:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Two of the last three Reps (none / 0)

Both Childers and Cazayoux are pro-life.

I'm getting the feeling that this is how Democrats are winning in formerly Republican districts.  By accepting pro-lifers into the big Democratic tent, we're essentially stealing a wedge issue used to steal Reagan Democrats.

I'm a little worried about the process, but as long as the leadership remains pro-choice, I think we'll be okay for awhile.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:17:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Those aren't reagan democrats... (none / 0)

reagan democrats live up north, and like macho dems (union folk, working class folk)


*&=4eva
by BlogSurrogate57 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:09:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There's a greater purpose (2.00 / 1)

I deny that they had a viable strategy.  Indeed, I consider it flippin' insane to think we can "de-partisan" the issue of abortion.  If an organization that lacked NARAL's credibility came to your door and said, "hey, we want money to help keep pro-choice Republicans in office, so we can de-partisan the issue," I would laugh at them.

I guess this is part and parcel of some of the larger issues raised by Obama's candidacy.  Look, I do not believe there will ever be "bipartisan solutions" to the major, defining issues.  Apparently you see it as realistic, but I just can't agree.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:34:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Us vs. Them (none / 0)

Obama's way is to find the issues that we agree on so we can get some work done, without throwing in poison pills that make it hemmorage along party lines.

Us vs. Them mentalities with regard to the Republicans are outdated.  It's how they treated us, but, quite frankly, we're better people than they are.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:20:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Us vs. Them (none / 0)

What's funny is that people don't notice that our partisan warriors were losing despite raking in and spending millions. Women's reproductive rights have been chipped away. Civil rights. The environment. Creating a vast majority by working outside of the partisan boxes can't do any worse and since it inspires rather than turns-off it's likely to work better.  


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:26:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Us vs. Them (none / 0)

Wow, we really should just agree to disagree at this stage.

I guess this is the message we've decided to go with as a party, so look, if it works out then I will gladly allow you to say that you told me so.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:30:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll happily forgo that. (none / 0)

If it works out, then I won't be inclined to crow about it.  I'll just be happy.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:58:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Us vs. Them (none / 0)

I'm really curious as to what this compromise between abortion being legal and abortion not being legal will be.

Next, Obama will show everyone how you can be a little pregnant.


by OrangeFur on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:22:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Abortion doesn't have to be bright line (none / 0)

Seriously, have any of you ever taken a look or manipulated an embryo under a microscope?  Have you taken a look at an fetus?

Yes, I'm a man (so implicitly for some of the folks here, I don't count), but we can discuss gradations of time when to have an abortion.

Why shouldn't we have restrictions on late term abortions (with carve-outs on health issues)?

I know a lot of you scoff at the moderates, but there are possible areas of compromise.  When I look at a ball of 32 cells, I don't pretend its the same as a fetus with defined body parts, a pumping heart, and movement.

Oh well, I'm in the silent majority on this one.


by Regenman on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:27:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Abortion doesn't have to be bright line (none / 0)

Ah yeah.  I don't think that many would  disagree about that difference.  The problem is that there is a perception (in my view accurate) that anti-choice people would use such restrictions to chip away at reproductive rights until all abortions are illegal.  Basically the concern is that it's a very slippery slope (although I'm sure those on the other side would argue the slope goes the other direction).

The truth is that no one likes abortions, but we do appreciate that they're legal for a variety of reasons, the most pertinent to me involve gender equality.  People who dislike abortions would be so much better served by promoting better sex education to diminish the number of abortions needed; instead of attacking the cause, they attack the effect.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lincoln Chafee is pro-choice (none / 0)

Your point, then, is that voting for moderate Republicans despite their claimed pro-choice leanings is a risk. It appears to be at odds with your support upthread of those hesitant to vote for Obama in the fall.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:31:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lincoln Chafee is pro-choice (none / 0)

NARAL's support of Chafee was illogical from a big picture standpoint. Chafee, while pro choice, would have cacuced with the GOP and helped them keep control of the senate. We would have pro lifers leading the senate. Sheldon Whitehouse was just as good a pro choicer, yet helped lead a Democratic majority, which is a better protection for reproductive rights than a GOP majority with a few mavericks like Chafee.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:29:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (none / 0)

There are many pro-choice Democrats who made the same vote as Chafee, including pro-choice women Senators.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:14:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (none / 0)

I'm not sure what your point is.  The vote should have been scored.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:31:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (2.00 / 1)

Rec'd and sent $40.

Alegre may convince me to send more.

Note to Hillary supporters:  Attacking every asset progressives have because you don't want to acknowledge that the nomination process is essentially a done deal won't change it.  It won't make Hillary the nominee.  Why not make sure that the nomination race is the only thing of value that you lose?


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:44:25 AM EST

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive (2.00 / 3)

I am an Obama supporter but I think NARAL should have kept their mouth shut until the primary was over. Or they should have endorsed both. Hillary may be many things, but she deserves at least a co-endorsement from NARAL.


by Pravin on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:59:50 AM EST

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive (none / 0)

It is over.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:27:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive (none / 0)

Why should they keep their mouth shut until after the primaries are over?  

There have been endorsements from lots of groups as is the norm for nomination season.

The Steelworkers just endorsed Obama today. Want to tell them to shut up, too?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:42:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive (none / 0)

NARAL should keep their mouths shut to respect many of their members who support Hillary.  

Waiting a couple of weeks will not make a difference with respect to their relationship with Obama.


by Pravin on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:54:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive (none / 0)

Why are they being held to a different standard than every other pro-choice group that's endorsed Hillary Clinton?


by Jordache on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:37:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive (none / 0)

I am not. I am not a Hillary supporter. I would hold the same opinion for all the women's groups. Just stay out of it. You got the first female Presidential candidate who was a frontrunner. I think they owe their membership some basic courtesy.

I have pooh poohed a lot of the whining coming from Hillary supporters. BUt I can understand their feelings with this endorsement. It is symbolic, so why not just wait 2 measly weeks?


by Pravin on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:20:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting for reproductive r (2.00 / 1)

We're all too willing 'round here to throw anyone or anything to the wolves if it doesn't suit our purposes.  

Thanks for reminding SOME that some things matter more than endorsements.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:29:33 AM EST

Did you know? (none / 0)

"NARAL Affiliates Question Obama Endorsement"

NARAL Pro-Choice America affiliates in key swing and primary states are openly distancing themselves from the decision by NARAL Pro-Choice America to endorse Illinois Sen. Barack Obama over Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton to be the Democratic nominee for president.

Since yesterday's announcement, NARAL groups in Pennsylvania, Missouri, Oregon, Washington, Texas and New York - Clinton's home state - have issued statements signaling their continued neutrality in the Democratic race and emphasizing that the national group did not speak for them on this matter. These groups represent nearly a quarter of NARAL's state chapters.

NARAL Pro-Choice Missouri felt so strongly about staying neutral its president recorded a robocall in the wake of the announcement, which the group then sent to 8,500 households emphasizing its neutrality. "In our membership demographic, a lot of longtime women's rights supporters are strong supporters of Hillary Clinton," Sumners told the St. Louis Post Dispatch.

SNIP - see below

Full article here


by Caldonia on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:37:01 PM EST

Re: Did you know? (none / 0)

Great!  I wouldn't have blamed them for staying neutral, but I didn't want them to be punished for endorsing who that particular office of NARAL thinks is the viable candidate (or whatever criteria they made that decision).

I think it's great that others are staying neutral if the independent NARAL arms want.  Give to those local chapters if you don't want to give to the national.

PS:

How did you do that snazzy thing with the scroll bar?


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:01:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Virtual REC for this diary!!! n/t (none / 0)


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:40:49 PM EST

Just renewed (none / 0)

My wife's membership in NARAL as a gift. She's a longtime supporter, and now seems like a good time to support 'em.
by OaktownDad on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:41:00 PM EST

Re: Just renewed (none / 0)

Good, great group and it send a clear message that we expect these groups to do what is best for the group and not the choices of individual members.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:22:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell NARAL (2.00 / 2)

I stopped supporting NARAL when they endorsed Chris Shays and another CT Republican (who lost) in 2006. Obviously it's their right to push their interest even if it's at times for the party that generally doesn't support their cause, and I respect a lot of what they have done, but my money is going elsewhere.


by Christopher Lib on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:35:26 PM EST

Re: Tell NARAL to keep fighting (none / 0)

Recced.

Well done.


by DeskHack on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:52:40 PM EST

There are so many... (2.00 / 2)

... other pro-choice groups to donate to--NOW, Planned Parenthood, which don't engage in this sort of pointless political preening.

NARAL's endorsement was bandwagoning, no more no less. They wanted to pretend to have some influence, and so they chose Obama. Their reasons for doing so had nothing to do with the difference between the two candidates. This decision was so popular that a half dozen of their state affiliates immediately distanced themselves from it.

Feel free to donate to them, of course. It's your money, and your right. And indeed, that was the whole point of NARAL's political stunt to begin with.


by OrangeFur on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:15:56 PM EST

Re: There are so many... (